Pro-Mark has an advertisement in the new issue of Percussive Notes (Percussive Arts Society magazine) for their new line of marching sticks (and presumably other implements) developed in conjunction with the Blue Devils: System Blue.

So we have a name for the new stuff, but still no details.

*edit*
For some reason the darned .pdf won't download. You can find it here: http://www.promark-stix.com/company/advertising.cfm

good thing the sticks in that photo are all blurry, makes it harder to tell that they're Vic Firth

Yeah, I'm surprised there's not any heat between the companies over that picture.

"Designed from the ground up by The Blue Devils and Pro-Mark."

I wonder who on behalf of the Blue Devils did the designing.

"Make them like the vic firth ralph hardimons!"

-The BD input on System Blue.

i can't believe Vic Firth is ok with this
that is very upsetting

Can't believe that Vic Firth is okay with what?

The Blue Devils can pick whoever they want to supply their choice of implements. As far as the picture is concerned, there is nothing there that ties BD to Vic Firth. Hell, for all we know (though improbable), Pro-Mark got four snare drummers to stand there and look fearsome.

from what i had been told they feel nice, and there pretty much johnsons but with better wood

Anyone have any pictures of these new products?

From what I understand they're designing everything just for BD?

I think it's kinda funny that they move to Pro-Mark and design a stick that's almost the same as what they had with Vic. Wonder if we'll start seeing more products that are comparable to their former stick brand.

BTW- I'm almost positive that the picture of them is with VF products that have been doctored to edit out the logo. I'm sure Vic's not happy about any of it. The switch or the photo.

The photo isn't doctored- It's from an 07 performance and the sticks are wrapped in tape just like every other photo of BD.

Vic Firth is not crying over this one- they are still the largest manufacturer of sticks and mallets in the world with plenty of teams and individuals who will never use anything else.

Pro Mark took note of what Dynasty did to get back in the game and followed suit- get a big boy to use your stuff and the legions will follow.

Some of us have been using Pro Mark marching stuff for years, no matter what our stick bags had printed on them. = )

I don't care whose name is printed on a stick or head. If a company sells a good product at a good price that makes the sound I'm looking for, I'll buy it. It's no wonder my line currently uses stuff from at least five different stick & mallet companies.



That's already been going on for a while. Jim Casella switched from Vic Firth to Innovative Percussion. Colin McNutt went the other way, from IP to Vic Firth. Dennis DeLucia switched from Vic Firth to Pro-Mark. Just because their endorsements moved from one company to another doesn't mean their preference in stick design changed, so we've seen similar sticks for each guy from multiple companies.

It changes year to year, but I was under the impression that BD only taped their sticks about halfway down the shaft. If it wasn't touched up to get rid of any logo then I stand corrected (and a lucky shot), but that wasn't really the point. It's from an '07 performance and they used VF in '07, then logically they are probably using Scott's VF signature stick even if there is no logo showing. The fact that PM is using a picture of Devs playing with their sticks in an ad that they are competing against is probably a bitter pill to swallow, but that's business.

I'm sure Vic's business is doing just fine, but to think that they are happy about losing one of their biggest corps is crazy talk. BD has been one of the most accomplished names in their marching percussion arsenal over the past 20+ years with specific designs that have been made directly for their staff/corps in general. It's business, both will move on and do their own thing, but they've invested a LOT in BD over the years.

I think, just like seeing them with Dynasty instead of Yamaha, it's going to be different. Wasn't trying to bag on Pro-Mark, it was definately a good business move on their part.

Good point.

I can't speak about the VF McNutt's, but I know that the VF Casella's are nothing like the IP Casella's. Same goes for the Delucia sticks. How many sticks have his name on them now?

The IP McNutt's are nothing like the VF McNutt's. I actually used to think the IP McNutt's looked similar to the Aungst's. kind of ironic..

I really don't care who's name is on the stick, a good product is a good product.

I can't wait to november to see the new stick/mallet VF is putting out. I've seen Surf using it.

I haven't tried Jim's IP stick so I'll defer to you about how it feels, but it's the same diameter as the VF stick with a similar taper and bead. The Delucia sticks aren't quite as similar from Vic Firth to the newer Pro-Mark models, but you can still tell the guy likes some beef to his wood. Even though they're not identical across brands, each endorser's sticks share some design similarities and I'd be a bit surprised if that isn't the case with the Blue Devils' new Pro-Mark sticks, too.



Change happens. For me, it was odd seeing the Blue Devils use Dynasty gear instead of Yamaha because when that swap happened, I hadn't been following the activity long enough to realize that these changes happen every few years: BD from Ludwig to Yamaha to Dynasty, Cadets from Pearl to Yamaha, Blue Knights from Premier to Pearl, Crossmen from Premier to Pearl to Yamaha, Phantom Regiment from Ludwig to Pearl to Dynasty, etc.

What is Vic firth putting out in november? i havent heard anything.

From what I have seen it is version of the swizzle but instead of a felt ball its a puck style nylon head(look liked the size of a MT1A). You won't hear about any prototypes till close to PASIC which is in November. Gives the manufactures time to tweak the product for production.

ok, thanks. sounds cool cant wait to see it

sounds like a good stick to use. i cant wait for it.

and i'm curious to see what the promark Blue Devils sticks will be like.

...that just seems unnessesary...although i'm bias and i hate anything that is a swizzle
i just dont see the point unless you need to do stick changes in like one beat...which, for my line atleast, doesnt happen

Well come November, it can happen. Also for lines that want to use a mallet and a stick, they can do so without: 1) ordering two sets of implements, and 2) using stick bags to do a change.

Just from a quick skim I don't think this was mentioned. After asking Scott Johnson, he said that the blue devs switched to help raise money. Basically promark will give the BD organization a cut of all the income from System Blue. This is huge because they are looking for ways to pay for gas. SCOTT however is still with Vic. But the entire line and battery has changed to Pro Mark. Also a quick note, the tenors are using a promark vega tenor stick or something like that.

you should be a sales rep for vic
the way you talk abou these you'd sell 'em like hot cakes

haha! I'd gladly take a cut of the profits. I'm just saying it opens up some possibilities and may not be as "unnecessary" as you think.

Profit-sharing is definitly the next level of corps/manufacturer relationships.

Do you mean the ts7 or w/e that pro mark stick is that is pretty much a carbon copy of the vic firth vegas? And on another note, i wonder if other corps are doing something like this to raise money, I certainly hope so.

For me since swizzles i don't see the point in hard felt mallets. Price wise swizzles are about the same price, actually even cheaper then hard felts. Its way more cost effective to have one implement do two things. It also cuts down on how many implements you have in a stick bag. Playing wise, even if you don't do two beat stick changes. It is nice to have that option to do so.



Vega's and TS7 are not even close IMO. TS7 is closer to the VF hybrid stick. which is still a stretch. tip and thickness make it its own monster, really hard to compare to anything else.


Back on topic: I wish Promark would put something out on the new line of System Blue. I know traditionally stick companies won't put too much out right now because of prototyping. but still least show us something. At least I can't find anything anywhere on System Blue

On paper they even look similar, but...

Pro-Mark TS7 Mike Stevens tenor stick.
16" Length x .700" Diameter

Vic Firth "Vega" Tenor stick:
L = 16 1/4", Dia. = .680"

...IMO the TS7 and Vegas look and sound completely different. Actually, I think it sounds more like the new Aungst Hybrid. "Fatter" sound because they were designed to still sound/feel like a quad mallet and the heads are a little more "cookie"ish... but for more on that see the topic in the "Tenor Equipment" forum.

Actually, when I first heard they made the switch I figured that they'd do something like the TS3. They remind me more of the Vegas than the TS7. But Pro-Mark probably designed something specifically for BD.

does anyone have any clue when the system blue items will be announced?

Having used both, I can verify TS7's and Vegas feel VERY different. They're both good, but the TS7 is a much "beefier" stick than the Vega.

On paper, the Pro-Mark TS3 is more similar to the Vega, but it has a very different feel, too. The TS3, like Pro-Mark's tenor mallets, has a very end-heavy feel. To me, the weight distribution kinda makes it feel like you're playing with hammers.

Exactly my feeling on the TS7. They are quite a bit beefier than the Vega with a much different tip. Having said that i do like them more than the vega. it's a bit easier scraping with them.

You know, I have been seeing many more drumlines using Pro Mark sticks. I don't know if this is because I never noticed this or not, but I have been saying many high schools with Pro Mark marching sticks. I personally use Pro Mark 5AX (Chris Adler) sticks on the drum set, and if the marching sticks handle wear and tear as well as the sticks I use now, I might look into Pro Mark next time I need marching sticks.

Well, let me enlighten all that are interested.

My parents own a music shop, a small music shop, but a music shop nonetheless.

We were eligible to go to the Summer NAMM show here in Nashville, TN.

Pro-Mark had a booth and on the last day of the show they were selling their sticks at discounted price. I bought nearly every marching stick they had on display, which included the new System Blue.

This stick feels INCREDIBLY beefy. I seriously don't think I've ever played with a stick as beefy as the SB.

The tip is almost the exact same as the Hardimon tip. If you did not study it closely you would say that they are indeed Hardimon tips.

I hope this info is some help.

For some reason I can't get my pics to show up on here so PM me your email if you want any pictures.

EDIT: Please note that this is just a description of the snare sticks. They did not have any of their models of tenor or bass mallets at the show.

I was talking to the center tenor of BD at the RCC show and he let me see both the snare stick and the tenor stick. Basically, like somedrummer104 said, the snare stick is a hardimon with pro mark slapped on it and the tenor stick is a vega with promark slapped on it.

Did he let you play with them?
They look like hardimons, but the little extra beefiness makes it feel a lot different than a hardimon.
They're not that bad to tell you the truth.

weird I'm quoting myself, but anyways I saw this picture on DCP site. If you look close you can see the swizzle I was talking about, Looks like a Hardimon and a MTT combined.


Side note: I like the finish on Surfs drums

Those are some sweet looking drums.

[off topic] it's good to see Surf wearing a uniform again, and not an Elvis jumpsuit or even better, board shorts.
[/off topic]

How are all you guys doing? I have a friend that marches BDB and he had a pair of those new System Blue sticks (snare). To be honest, I don't really know if there is a system blue bass mallet or system blue tenor stick but I have seen and have played with the snare stick Pro-Mark will be putting out. As many others have said, it has a Hardimon (-like) bead. However, the diameter is MUCH thicker making it way beefier. When I played with it, it has AMAZING balance from the butt to the bead. In that aspect the stick seemed great, but what made me not like it was the size and the wood. Not only is the stick so beefy that it is awkward to hold, but to me, the wood itself didn't seem like it was sanded or laquered (I think I spelled that wrong) enough. The finish was really, really bad. Can someone enlighten me if there is going to be a tenor stick and bass mallet. I would assume there will be.

I hope this helps any of you. If it isn't violating anything, I might be able to get a picture of it. But I have a feeling that posting a picture of it will be a big no-no.

in the latest lot video of devs, there's a closeup on the tenors' hands and you can see Promark's trademark black ring around the tenor sticks.

Today is the day that system blue officially goes on sale to the public. I got an e-mail from steveweissmusic.com sayint that system blue has been added to their invintory. just thought i'd let DLO know the exciting news we've all been waiting for. Also promark's website now has system blue announced on their website with a ton of info.

If you are attending a Summer Music Games event the blue devils merchandise stand has both the snare and tenor sticks for sale.
I got one of each.

But I still am able to say I had a pair of the snare sticks before they were released

NAMM is awesome!

they're cheaper than what i expected them to be. i'll probably buy the TS8's and try it out soon.

Pro Mark seems to have spent the last few years ravamping their marching products and discontinuing their less popular sticks. Increased usage might reflect their improved offerings: improved aluminum shaft tenor mallets, new line of bass mallets, and new snare sticks. (They still need to ditch their hickory shaft tenor mallets -- a wooden mallet with a rubber grip is definitely outre.)

I think that a high profile endorser like BDs convinced directors and instructors to take a look at Pro Mark and some of them apparently liked what they found.

... uh ... Surf has worn uniforms for 3 seasons ...

Yea, so imagine how bitter he must be to still bring it up...haha j/k

Anyhoo- according UPS, there are pairs of both the snare and quad sticks sitting on my doorstep for me to get after work.

I won't have any time to check them out til sunday as I'm going to EAST, but I'll get my 2 cents up here pronto for all you cats that need a non-bias opinion.

I got a good close up look at them tonight. both the snare and tenor models. to be quite honest I'm not impressed. the snare stick is more of a short Scott Johnson stick, the bead is slightly more barreled tipped rather then round like the SJ. They are weighted decent. seem to have nice balance. Just quality of the wood comes into play


The new vega stick...its pretty close to a carbon copy of the VF verson, the tip is the same shape but more rounded, there is no defined edges like the VF. the shaft is thicker, for me i thought it felt too beefy.

Ok the reason why I'm not impressed is again the quailty of the stick, the vega i picked up had little pits in the shaft. like if you peel little strand of wood away and left it like that. (I have the same thing on my Stevens sticks, which i have gotten splinters from) there is a very slight finish