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#165013 - 06/15/08 12:02 PM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: PolyesterHemiola]
Ironman7 Offline


Registered: 02/22/04
Loc: Springfield M.A
News flash on the single 8 inch spock...Charlie Poole had this setup over at East Coast Jazz when they got the new Dynasty drums. I am personaly not a fan of the tone produced by the 8 in drum in any setting. However, its not a big deal. A good line is a good line. Also all this two spocks crap is not at new. I recall Garfield when Hannum was running the show over there having two six in drums. I believe he refers to the spock in his big book(aka the bible to Hannumites) as "effects drums" and also thinks of them more in a "bongo" like role.

Truth be told the meat of every tenor book is on the four primary drums. I myself have a set of Dynasty big block sixes(two 6 inch drums). Its nice but honestly I only really need the one 6 inch drum. I will be interested to see if Jim and the kids over at Cavies can tune that 8 inch spock to a tone that I don't hate.

Lastly why is it that every high school kid thinks you need as many drums around your waist as possible to be good? Since when does a big set of tenors, a huge snare line, a monster sized drumline, make you good? Just means you have more shtuff to potentialy mess up. More drums is not better to a certain point.
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#165015 - 06/15/08 12:42 PM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: PolyesterHemiola]
9Volt Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Loc: OH-IO
Originally Posted By: PolyesterHemiola

That being said, I guess I don't follow the logic of seeing TRUE quads (4 drums) again. WHY? I guess, if that's what you want to do, fine, but it's tons more limiting than one or two spocks. We might as well see trios of 16,18,20" rear their ugly heads once more. I'm thinking more in the voicing region here because the bass lines are taking those tones and there's only so much space between the snare and bass voicing. I think of the spock as an added bonus, that now just doesn't feel right without. One spock or two, I think, is more of a feel thing that anything.


I would say bring back quads because I've met way to many people that seem to have the mind set of "The more spocks you have the better player you are; The more spocks you can play the better player you are." If a drum corp would go back to the original quads, and still throw down a lick nasty and clean, that would just show how spocks are not to big of a deal. Sure, spocks ARE fun, I wont lie. BUT the drums are called quads, not spocks. The first 4 drums are supposed to be the important drums, not the 5 and 6 drums.


Edit - Ironman basically hit it exactly on the head. More drums does not make you a better line, and spocks are not the lead role, the first 4 drums are.


Edited by 9Volt (06/15/08 12:44 PM)
_________________________
My favorite YouTube comment
On the subject of a bad tenor player

Quote:
just to let you guys know, being a drummer, he meant to hit the rims, it's part of the effect. It changes it up a bit.

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#165018 - 06/15/08 02:00 PM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: 9Volt]
Gernads Offline


Registered: 02/10/07
Loc: Chesterland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: 9Volt
Originally Posted By: PolyesterHemiola

That being said, I guess I don't follow the logic of seeing TRUE quads (4 drums) again. WHY? I guess, if that's what you want to do, fine, but it's tons more limiting than one or two spocks. We might as well see trios of 16,18,20" rear their ugly heads once more. I'm thinking more in the voicing region here because the bass lines are taking those tones and there's only so much space between the snare and bass voicing. I think of the spock as an added bonus, that now just doesn't feel right without. One spock or two, I think, is more of a feel thing that anything.


I would say bring back quads because I've met way to many people that seem to have the mind set of "The more spocks you have the better player you are; The more spocks you can play the better player you are." If a drum corp would go back to the original quads, and still throw down a lick nasty and clean, that would just show how spocks are not to big of a deal. Sure, spocks ARE fun, I wont lie. BUT the drums are called quads, not spocks. The first 4 drums are supposed to be the important drums, not the 5 and 6 drums.


Edit - Ironman basically hit it exactly on the head. More drums does not make you a better line, and spocks are not the lead role, the first 4 drums are.


I never said anything about you being better if you have more drums. But you need to understand that high school kids that haven't marched corps yet look up to the guys that do like they are gods among men. They want to tilt like the Cavies, have 6 drums, march backwards at 204 bpm, all that stuff. That is one reason many high school kids want 6 drums and all that jazz.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear in my post.

When I said that 6 drums gives the players more drums to show off with, I meant visually as well as musically.

With that said, the Cavaliers percussion staff has always been one of my favorites. Casella knows what he is doing and either way, the Cavaliers will be laying it down for their 60th anniversary. I know I won't be dissapointed.
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#165124 - 06/16/08 04:16 AM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: 9Volt]
PolyesterHemiola Offline


Registered: 10/28/03
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 9Volt


I would say bring back quads because I've met way to many people that seem to have the mind set of "The more spocks you have the better player you are; The more spocks you can play the better player you are." If a drum corp would go back to the original quads, and still throw down a lick nasty and clean, that would just show how spocks are not to big of a deal. Sure, spocks ARE fun, I wont lie. BUT the drums are called quads, not spocks. The first 4 drums are supposed to be the important drums, not the 5 and 6 drums.


Edit - Ironman basically hit it exactly on the head. More drums does not make you a better line, and spocks are not the lead role, the first 4 drums are.


You can't change the perception that people have about the amount of drums someone attempts to play. It's comparable to the guy with the HUGE drumset in your hometown that can't play, but people think that he's the greatest because he's got a kit that would make Neil Peart blush. It's sad, but it happens and we all know it.

My point is, having that "accent" sound from the spock has become synonymous with the modern tenor voice. Overwriting for ANY one or two single drums in the set makes for a monotone drum book, so how can any one drum be more important than another?

Also, why do we have to prove to anyone that spocks aren't that big of a deal? One or two, it's a matter of preference and even then, so what if people want to have 2 just because it looks cool? WHY NOT? I wonder if people said the same thing about putting a fourth drum on a set of trios...my guess is yes.

Basically, it comes down to the fact that those groups or people that have 20 gazillion drums and can't play them actually can't even drum on ONE drum the correct way. The amount of drums has really nothing to do with it.

Closer to topic...maybe The Green Machine should just march a single tenor line on slings and throw down some REALLY sick nasty licks this year! Just kidding.
_________________________
Phantom Regiment Winter Percussion 1997 - Quads (WGI)
Pioneer 1997-1998 Quads/Snare
Blue Knights Percussion Ensemble 1998 - Quads (WGI)
Crown 1999 Quads

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#165129 - 06/16/08 09:47 AM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: PolyesterHemiola]
dredpir8roberts Offline


Registered: 10/23/07
I will say that having two spocks allows you to get up onto the spock drums with the right and left hands at different points horizontally, which opens up some more options for movement around the drums. If anyone's familiar with the quad part for greivous groove when it goes into the sextuplet section, there's some things going on there that I don't think are possible with only one central spock, you'd be hitting yourself in the hands.

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#165178 - 06/17/08 12:21 AM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: PolyesterHemiola]
9Volt Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Loc: OH-IO
Originally Posted By: PolyesterHemiola
Originally Posted By: 9Volt


I would say bring back quads because I've met way to many people that seem to have the mind set of "The more spocks you have the better player you are; The more spocks you can play the better player you are." If a drum corp would go back to the original quads, and still throw down a lick nasty and clean, that would just show how spocks are not to big of a deal. Sure, spocks ARE fun, I wont lie. BUT the drums are called quads, not spocks. The first 4 drums are supposed to be the important drums, not the 5 and 6 drums.


Edit - Ironman basically hit it exactly on the head. More drums does not make you a better line, and spocks are not the lead role, the first 4 drums are.


You can't change the perception that people have about the amount of drums someone attempts to play. It's comparable to the guy with the HUGE drumset in your hometown that can't play, but people think that he's the greatest because he's got a kit that would make Neil Peart blush. It's sad, but it happens and we all know it.

My point is, having that "accent" sound from the spock has become synonymous with the modern tenor voice. Overwriting for ANY one or two single drums in the set makes for a monotone drum book, so how can any one drum be more important than another?

Also, why do we have to prove to anyone that spocks aren't that big of a deal? One or two, it's a matter of preference and even then, so what if people want to have 2 just because it looks cool? WHY NOT? I wonder if people said the same thing about putting a fourth drum on a set of trios...my guess is yes.

Basically, it comes down to the fact that those groups or people that have 20 gazillion drums and can't play them actually can't even drum on ONE drum the correct way. The amount of drums has really nothing to do with it.

Closer to topic...maybe The Green Machine should just march a single tenor line on slings and throw down some REALLY sick nasty licks this year! Just kidding.



Because, as stated before, the majority of the tenor book is written on the four drums, the spock is only an accent piece, and people make such a big deal over it. It's just like adding a bongo to a drum kit. I agree with what you've said about the people who believe the bigger drums the better the player, My big issue is, why do the percussionists make a big deal about it, ar'nt they supposed to know better? The bottom of the line is, people are freaking out about adding one 8 inch drum onto a tenor set, instead of having two 6 inch drums, whats the big deal?
_________________________
My favorite YouTube comment
On the subject of a bad tenor player

Quote:
just to let you guys know, being a drummer, he meant to hit the rims, it's part of the effect. It changes it up a bit.

Top
#165182 - 06/17/08 04:33 AM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: 9Volt]
multi-Thomm Global Moderator Offline


Registered: 12/31/00
Loc: here
The problem with this thread is it's becoming more about what role the spock play in the over all tenor voice. There is no black and white answer. It depends on the arranger/composer. Sure in most stock arrangements it is an accent drum. Then again I head it used as effectively as the 4 main drums.

We can go back and fourth debating, but that is not what this thread is dealing with. 6 drums, 5 drums, 6/8 combo, double six. it really doesn't change the fact that a good quad line can make any set of tenors sound good. for me that is what it all boils down too.

The fact is Cavies are using a single 8" spock this season. its not the end of the world. The quad line will still play some amazing licks.

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#165183 - 06/17/08 06:21 AM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: multi-Thomm]
PolyesterHemiola Offline


Registered: 10/28/03
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: multi-Thomm
The fact is Cavies are using a single 8" spock this season. its not the end of the world. The quad line will still play some amazing licks.



Totally. Didn't mean for this to become a "spock" thread. Like I've been saying, it's the first time for one Cav's spock since '86. News. Thanks multi-Thomm!
_________________________
Phantom Regiment Winter Percussion 1997 - Quads (WGI)
Pioneer 1997-1998 Quads/Snare
Blue Knights Percussion Ensemble 1998 - Quads (WGI)
Crown 1999 Quads

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#165195 - 06/17/08 02:12 PM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: PolyesterHemiola]
NungaDrum729 Offline


Registered: 11/06/07
Loc: NJ
In the pic, what is the thing on the side of drum 3 next to the stick bag?
_________________________
I've played some drums with some people at certain places.

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#165198 - 06/17/08 03:02 PM Re: 2008 Cavie Quadz [Re: NungaDrum729]
drumcorpbc Global Moderator Offline


Registered: 05/12/03
Loc: St. Louis, MO
It looks like it's a piece of plastic. I know the snares have the wood piece on the side that they used several years back.
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Bill Castillo

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