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#140410 - 04/15/07 01:29 AM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: DigitalDrummer]
jthurman Offline


Registered: 06/24/06
Quote:

And to add to your analogy, in most forms of karate, the attacker is supposed to "punch through" the target in a way similar to playing through the head. If your target is 1 foot away, then imagine you're punching a target 2 feet away.




Yeah, same idea... what you intend to do after the event affects the event. This is a general life lesson if you think about it... what you intend to do AFTER skydiving will affect whether you open your parachute or not.

Anyway, here's another thing that I like to do with this concept... I like to have my keyboard players play marching snare drums for a while and get a feel for the rebound that they give. Then, playing keyboards, try to imitate the same rebound. That works well for some students who are more kinesthetic learners.

Same concept, (yet another) different approach.


Edited by jthurman (04/15/07 01:30 AM)
_________________________
Performing
1995-1997 High school Front Ensemble, 1998 Colts Drum Corps, 2006 "Blindfolded drumming genius in orange" in Pipeline Children's Percussion Theatre
Teaching
1998-1999, 2002-2003 High school front ensemble instructor/arranger, 2004-present high school percussion caption head/arranger
Available for marching percussing arranging, clinics, and general consulting

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#140411 - 04/16/07 09:23 AM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: DigitalDrummer]
drumcorpbc Global Moderator Offline


Registered: 05/12/03
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Quote:

Quote:

The same goes for Tympani and any other instrument...




It's also a good idea to spell "timpani" right if you want to express your knowledge of the instrument




Can't tell if you're being sarcastic about his spelling or not, but tImpani and tYmpani are both accepted and correct spelling of kettle drums.
_________________________
Bill Castillo

OAS AAS LLS!!!


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#140412 - 04/18/07 08:32 PM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: drumcorpbc]
DigitalDrummer Offline


Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: TX
Whoops, I was unaware of that >_<
sry Inversion!
_________________________
Alamo Heights H.S.
'05-'06 - Bass (2nd)
'06-'07 - Snare
'07-'08 - Tenors
'08-'09 - Tenors (Percussion S.L.)

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#140413 - 05/01/07 07:14 PM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: DigitalDrummer]
MarathonDrumGod Offline


Registered: 08/22/04
I believe instructors in high school use the phrase "pull the sound out" to discuss the idea of projection to students that age. Projection is all about technique (similar to what jthurman discussed above). I never really talked much about this idea until this year, I re-taught technique to the keyboards and the sound does carry much further. It creates the sensation of volume but it really just projects further.
_________________________
Marathon Drum God
Student - DC Everest (1996-99)
Staff - Marathon (1999-2005) Germantown (2005-2006)
Marathon DL - 2003 State Percussion Champions

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#168948 - 08/06/08 04:12 PM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: MarathonDrumGod]
Percussionisto Offline


Registered: 08/04/08
Loc: Bakersfield, California
I think they use the phrase because they don't want students to do the opposite of the action, which would be to keep the mallets on the bars after contact has been made. My instructor actually used the analogy of pretending the bars were hot and you couldn't keep the mallets on the bars.

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#169965 - 08/19/08 01:28 AM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: DigaDupSuck]
Percplayer4 Offline
blank

Registered: 09/26/07
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I think percussionisto has the right idea. What the director is doing is merely giving a visual representation that the student can use to produce the result that the director wants. I don't think the director has time to explain the physics of percussion like: the concepts of force, aiming below the surface of the bar/head, how microseconds matter when it comes to how long the mallet/stick maintains contact with the head/bar, etc.

If a student is truly interested in learning all about these fascinating yet difficult concepts to understand (I barely do at times and I've studied this at college for 4 years!), then the director can explain it to them. However, I think to make a quick fix, "lifting the sound from the bars" is acceptable.
_________________________
--------
Various playing experiences over 16 years...
Various teaching positions over 6 years....

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#170698 - 08/30/08 07:45 PM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: Percplayer4]
SFZ541 Offline


Registered: 01/22/06
Loc: Sanibel, FL
I don't think "pulling the sound out of the instrument" has anything to do with the sound in itself, however by doing it the motion before hitting the instrument changes when you think "pull the sound out". You tend to be much more relaxed when the motion is described as "gently pulling the sound out of the instrument" versus "hitting the note". I doubt if anyone actually believes you can literally pull sound out of the instrument but that mental approach translates to making a much better quality of sound from the instrument.

I think that's why people teach it. It's a mental trick. They got us.
_________________________
Cypress Lake High School Marching Pride
Freshman - 06-07 - Snare
Sophomore - 07-08 - Tenors
Junior - 08-09 - Tenors, Drum Captain
In the future - ??-?? - Center Tenor of some corps

I used to be Apollo541

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#171129 - 09/07/08 09:13 PM Re: Pulling the sound out of the instrument [Re: SFZ541]
UNT_BD_QFiver Offline


Registered: 09/06/08
Loc: Utah
This topic has been the subject of many, many discussions over the years and I would always take the suggestion of a person much more talented and experienced than myself. In this case, Mr. L.H. Stevens. Read his book Methods of Movement and you can apply that technique to all concert percussion instruments.

In a nutshell, with apologies to Mr. Stevens:
Close your eyes and pretend to be a marimba bar/vibe bar/timpani head/etc. Have a friend hit you three times with a mallet, being carefull not to change the velocity of the stroke. The first time, have them do a round-off back handspring and then hit you. The second time have them stike you and THEN do a back flip. The third time have them just hold the mallet 8-9 in from you, hit you and then return the mallet to its starting position.

Could you feel a difference? (If the velocity was really the same each time, then the answer should be "no") If you can't tell the difference, do you think a marimba bar could? "No". So what happens after a stroke has more to do with preparing yourself for the next stroke than anything else.

The "lifting" idea is born from students who downstroke EVERYTHING with a ferociousness than leads to high velocity and a very poor sound. The opposite of this downstroke is a up or "lifted" stroke with less velocity. Telling a kid to "pull the sound out" a quick way to fix a barbaric downstroker, but you are correct in saying that what happens after something is already struck is meaningless.

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