Let's look at it. We stand out in the hot sun during the marching season. We have injuries, people fainting and what not, and We have pro circuits like the big sports. So could band be considered as a sport?

I wouldnt really consider it a sport...I take that back it is a sport. If NASCAR can be a sport band can. Its by far more mentally challenging than any other sport ive played. Its also more physical than some of the "sports" out there

alright...i know how this is gonna sound and not many people are gonna like it but here's what i think. i think it's like a sport in the way that cheerleading can be considered a sport. i mean, take a lot of the same arguments that cheerleaders have posed in saying that they are a sport, and then look at all the reasons why others say that they're not a sport...and then if you take that and line it up with all the reasons for band...they're practically identical. now i'm not saying that i do or do not think it is a sport here...i'm just throwing up a parallel.

Oh, ok. I see what you're saying. Cheerleading is a sport to a certain point, and you're saying band is parallel to cheerleading so band is a sport to a certain point, right?

I suppose marching band could be considered a sport, but I consider it more of a performance art myself. I'm not saying that we don't work as hard as sports teams, just that the main focus is on the music and what the forms look like. Yes, to get good results in the music and the drill we do sports-like things, but still I think it's more of an art.

But then again, ice dancing is an Olympic sport, so the lines between sport and performance art are pretty blurry...

I define a sport as something that is exerting and competetive. So, Marching Band and Drum Corps are most definately sports!

If Rhythmic Gymnastics and syncronized Swimming are sports (they must be since they are in the Olympics,) then I don't see why band/corps is not.

But it is also performance art as Drummergrl004 said. So maybe it should be put into a new classification:

Performance Sport

Maybe now WE will get the sponsorships and the ESPN coverage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good point M.A.M!!!! I'll get the petition board ready!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I like that performance sport idea. Then jocks could stop b*tching about how rhythmic gymnastics, synchronized swimming and figure skating aren't sports, and people involved in those things as well as band/corps could still get the prestige athletes get. A happy medium...

I would sign that petition.

u should really start one..i mean think about it all these posts! I would sign it!

Just how many signatures do you need for a petition like that anyway?

This is my totally random guess but i'm gonna say around 1,593

I actually had a member of my school's varsity guys soccer team and a member of the varsity field hockey team tell me how amazed they were at how much the marching band practices. It was something to the effect of "man, I've seen you guys during band camp...if I had to work that hard for that long I think I'd die!". Now, unfortunately, not all of the jocks at my school give us that kind of respect, but it just goes to show you- we are a sport, all the way. We compete, we work our butts off, and we practice more than the "real" sports teams. So call it a "performance sport", call it whatever you like, but in my mind, anyone who can march a 12 minute show or make it through band camp without passing out is an athlete.

Just to be clear on the "true" definition of the word "sport" as we are using it, I looked it up at m-w.com.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">*pause for jokes about the sexual play part*

The one that stands out to me is, "physical activity engaged in for pleasure." If this where the defining meaning for 'sport' then yes, marching band and/or drum corps are sports. But then again, what exactly would one define as "physical?"

Some could argue that knitting is a sport. It is a physical activity. You are physically working the needle and the thread. One may also engage in knitting for pleasure. By the same definition, one could consider organizing your stamp collection a sport. You are physically putting the stamps in their places, and you derive pleasure from it.

What do I think? Yes. Without a doubt, marching band, drum corps, knitting, and even stamp collecting are ALL sports. Look at the definition; it does not lie. Over the years, we have distorted our language that words tend to loose meaning in some places and gain meaning in others.

"Sport" is one of these words. Nowadays, when people think of sports, they really think of competitive sports. When people think of competitive sports, they think of one side battling it out with the other side simultaneously. This, however, is a skewed definition. A competitive sport, in definition, are two or more entities striving for an objective against each other. Therefore, things like cheerleading, figure skating, marching band, and drum corps are all competitive sports as well.

Well said Webmaster!!! That had to be the clearist definition of my question ever. Would you sign the petition?

Thank you for the kind comment CoosCoos. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I would be careful about what you wish for though. If schools began to recognize marching band as a sport, that would mean that you would have to have a physical AND (at least where I live) a GPA of at least 2.0. But, since it's not officially recognized as a sport, you don't have to have either.

I looked at the definition of "sport" some more and looked a little deeper into it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
(2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The word that I focused on was, "athletic." The root of "athletic" is "athlete," so let us look at that word. Back at m-w.com, we find out the definition for "athlete."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is no doubt in anyone's mind here that members of marching bands and drum corps are trained AND skilled at what they do. However, let us look at the requirements as it says in the definition.

Physical strength. Any drummer knows it takes this just to be able to carry around your drum(s).

Agility, the root of which is agile. I will let Webster explain this one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
1 : marked by ready ability to move with quick easy grace
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any marcher, especially one in a corps, will tell you that moving with quick easy grace is probably THE most important skill to have, next to your actual playing.

And finally we come to stamina. When I first looked up stamina at m-w.com it gave me “stamen” that has something to do with plants. But it had a choice to go to stamina instead. When doing that, it directs me to endurance, a synonym for stamina. Finally I get a definition.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
1 : PERMANENCE, DURATION
2 : the ability to withstand hardship or adversity; especially : the ability to sustain a prolonged stressful effort or activity <a marathon runner's endurance>
3 : the act or an instance of enduring or suffering <endurance of many hardships>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think, when most people think about band camp or practices in general, prolonged stressful effort would be an ideal way to describe it.

There you have it. Not only are marching band and drum corps sports, but its participants are also athletes. Now get back to your training everyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

i must say, good use of dictionary. but...if we ever see olympic stamp collecting....we'll know who to blame.............

WAIT A MINUTE!!!! I think everyone is missing one key aspect to our modern day screwed up definition of sports. You have to realize that no matter what the dictionary says you aren't a sport until you are like the other sports.

So, lets look at a popular sport, around the same time as Marching Band is (for High School at least). Football.

Football is simple enough.
A) You have a skill, whether its being able to push someone out of the way or throw a ball really long, you need a skill. Marching ATHLETES have skill.
B) You have to pass certain qualifications to make the team, you have to try-out. It's obvious that we try-out for DCI and Drumline and whatever.
C) You have to play as a team to make it a sport, because you have to play against someone. We gather together a Band and play against other bands. Seems similar enough.

But, aside from these things that are in Football and in Marching Band, there is one thing that sets apart out modern day Sports and any and all types of Marching Band including DCI...

SPORTS ATHELETES GET PAYED!!!!!

So until DCI strolls up to me and says they'll pay me $1,000,000 dollars a year to play in their band, I will not consider Marching Band a sport. Yes, it passes the definition, but I would much rather have it set apart from the rest. It's much better to pay to play then to get payed for playing. It keeps the sport a sport and not an easy way to make money.

Indoorperc <img border="0" alt="[2]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm2.gif" />

Anyway, one thing about what Webmaster said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would be careful about what you wish for though. If schools began to recognize marching band as a sport, that would mean that you would have to have a physical AND (at least where I live) a GPA of at least 2.0</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">At my school, we fall under the exact same eligibility requirements that sports teams do. Chorus, drama club, and any other extracurricular that represents the school in performance or competition does as well. The requirements are academic and conduct related. The academic requirement states that you can't recieve any failing grades for a class or you'll be ineligible to perform the next quarter. The conduct portion states that if you are caught drinking, smoking or doing drugs, or are caught at a party, at the house of, in a car with, etc. of someone who is doing those things, you are suspended from the activity for 45 days or until the end of the season, whichever is longer. Anyway, my point is we already fall under that category anyway. As far as getting a physical, we do have to sign a form saying we are healthy enough to be in band, and our director has toyed with the idea of requiring a physical anyway.

Anyway, I do agree that we pretty much are athletes, but I'm still conflicted over whether to call it a sport or not. I mean technically, yes it is, but most people consider a sport something with a mathematical score - a number of points scored by the number of runs, touchdowns, goals, etc.; a time in a race, etc.

Band is not the only thing where judging comes into play. The merit of having numerous sports in the Olympics has already been contested many many times. Sports such as gymnastics and figure skating that are judged, similarly to marching band/corps have been criticized constatly because there isn't a "clear" winner. Look at the figure skating scandal from the Salt Lake Olympics. It still hasn't died down completely. Many people's solution was to remove skating from the Olympics because it's just too damn objective. Now I'm not saying I agree, but band is considered a sport by even less people right now. I somehow doubt that even if band should be considered a sport, it ever actually will be.

To tell you the truth, I'm still not positive where I stand on the issue. But I do feel strongly about one thing: band members certainly work just as hard as sports teams, and they should get just as much recognition no matter how they're classified.

Ok. I see where you guys are coming from. You can't really tell that band's a sport or not. In some ways it is, and in some ways it isn't. We've got physical exertion, agility, tryouts, etc. But at the same time, as JHS magnificently pointed out, band members don't get paid!! We pay to play in the band!!!

I'm gonna have to be neutral on this one, there's pretty much proof that band is in between being a sport and not a sport.

hey if we were to sign for band to be a sport...who would we send it too?

Well, that depends. Congress wouldn't be the way to go, they don't decide these things. But, do you want it to be an olympic sport, or do you just want ESPN to notice us. I would say send it to the Olympic Committee, if there is one.

That's another good question. But I'm kinda skeptical about the Olympic Commitee. Who knows when someone will get tipped off again(like the french judge)?

Expanding on a point brought up, I'll just have to say that band is neither a sport, nor is it a sport. Why should band have to be classified as a sport? It requires endurance, physical ability, and musical finesse. No other so-called sport does. So, band, corps, etc. are in a class by themselves.
Anyway. It would be pretty sweet to see finals aired on ESPN though. <img border="0" alt="[16]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm16.gif" />

If finals were aired on ESPN, then movie producers could actually succeed in getting info from them this time <img border="0" alt="[20]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm20.gif" />

Hell yeah band is a sport...i've just about played all the sports there is to play and band is the hardest thing I've ever done...i mean ur out there with the drums, etc. on for maybe 2-3 hrs. at a time with like a 15-30 break(according to my band) and then u go back out and do it again and again...i play quints and it almost kills me with the weight and the sun beating down on me...there has been people to be injured and people passed out on the field..its not a contact sport..well..unless a stick goes flying or something but yes....if football is considered a sport then band should be too....peaces my drum hommies!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by drummergrl004:
<strong>If finals were aired on ESPN, then movie producers could actually succeed in getting info from them this time <img border="0" alt="[20]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm20.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Made me laugh out loud. Good job.

Thanks Mindwolf..I couldn't resist <img border="0" alt="[20]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm20.gif" />

Now, TRMChrisQuints brought up a good point about not being a contact sport. But look at something like golf. It certainly isn't a contact sport but it gets plenty on media attention. I think band probably requires more coordination and strength, and certainly more stamina (how hard is it to walk from hole to hole, really?). Maybe they should take golf off TV on Sundays in the summer and aire DCI shows instead...

Amen Jen <img border="0" alt="[4]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm4.gif" /> There's nothin I hate more than when my dad decides to take up the tv all weekend to watch a freakin golf tournament...airing DCI would be a hell of a lot more exciting...

My grandmother always watches golf too, and whenever we go ever there she puts it on for the whole afternoon. She actually has the GOLF channel on satellite....

I think we need a DCI channel LOL

I must say that the golf channel is one of the most useless channels on a satelite. You're right drummergrl, they need a DCI channel for real.

I'll have to disagree.... a golf channel is not totally useless. When you get hella bored
(and i mean bored beyond bored) you can scream random things at the tv.But a DCI channel would be the best thing since sliced bread.

I think we have enough golf channels and golf on tv...hey, at least marching band/drum corps keeps everything moving! I wonder how long something like that could last though, but I guess that the professionals can learn drills super fast enough for a DCI channel to be an ongoing thing.

I could see it now...they'd have one of those anylisis shows for the drumlines, have like one of those reality shows that follows a high school band through a whole season. It'll be off the hook.

That would be sooooooooooooo cooooool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dude! A DCI channel would be tight. They could broadcast every performance so you don't have to buy a ticket to see, but you still get to see some of it. They could show practice sessions of the band and the drumline. They could have a show called "Parking Lot Sessions" and they could show different clips from each band getting ready for a competition. Dude, you could even show a corps learning drill and music. And I could definetly see a reality TV show like that. But it'd be funny to have a reality Drumline show like Fear Factor or something. I don't know how that would work, like, a dare would have to be to play Trad grip on Tenors with 7A sticks or something. Lol, that would be funny. <img border="0" alt="[2]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm2.gif" />

Tenors playing with 7A sticks? and in traddish? That would give me a chuckle.
<img border="0" alt="[2]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm2.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[2]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm2.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[2]" title="" src="graemlins/cwm2.gif" />

What I would like to see is for camera crews to follow different corps around on summer tour. They could show practices, off days, breaks, shows, just the typical "day in the life" of a corps member. Sort of like they do in the tour diaries, only have the show run daily for like an hour all summer and profile all the top corps from Div 1, 2 and 3 and DCA. Not only would it be awesome to see how everything was progressing with the different corps, but it might get new people to join after they see how much fun it is.

I really like the idea of the reality show proposal. I think, however that MTV or VH1 would be a better channel for that than ESPN. It could be positioned as part of the Save-The-Music campaign that they have been running the past few years. It could be shot along the same lines as Real World (a show I despise, btw.)

I do believe that ESPN should be the location to air championships, however. They air cheerleading and dance team championships, so I couldn't see why they wouldn't be able to do drum corps, marching band, and color guard championships. Don't get me wrong, PBS has done a fine job over the years, but they just can't seem to keep the expenses down.

It will all come down to sponsorships to get this done. Unless we can get a Cook Group, Inc. type sponsorship, we would need the equipment manufacturers (Yamaha, Pearl, Dynasty, Zildjian, Sabian, etc.) as well as some services (Sysco Food Services) or sports companies (Gatorade, Nike, et al.) to fund it. Maybe MTV could be pursuaded to throw some funds at it, too, again as part of Save-The-Music foundation.

Any other ideas?

A lot of times ESPN shows more coverage than regular networks, so maybe we could get to see more than just the top 5 corps at finals. I would love to see at least the top 12, and maybe some of the top Div 2 and 3 corps as well.

I wonder if they could also be cajoled into showing BOA Grand Nationals...

i don't know if a whole tv show would really work but one of those MTV True Life documentaries would be good. sure, the majority are about drug addicts but there are others and the one that they did about cheerleading was pretty good actually. they should air finals on ESPN though...but we all know why cheerleading and dance teams get on and not corps. it's cuz there aren't any corps that are made up entirely of girls in either short skirts or tight uniforms...

Good to see everyone's noggin's runnin'! See, us drummer's aren't as dumb as we seem afterall! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Indoorperc: Olympic Stamp Collecting would kick arse!!!

JHS: It's not a sport if some participant down the line doesn't get paid? Thanks for playin' pal. You can pick up your consolation prize at the door. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I don't have a PhD in sports of the world, but, are there Jai-Alai players that get paid? Racquetball? Squash? If there weren't would that mean you wouldn't consider them a sport? If not, come on over to Maryland and I'll school ya in racquetball! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And do you consider receiving money as the only way of getting paid? I receive numerous benefits for playing snare for The Baltimore Raven's marching band. What if I could talk the Ravens into giving me a penny a season? Would I then be a professional marcher, thus casting marching band into "sporthood?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Drummergrl004: That's weird, especially since we're both in Maryland. Well then, I guess I can only speak for St. Mary's county. And you're right that there are rarely any clear winners at band or corps competitions. But, as you mentioned, the same can be said for figure-skating as well as many other Olympic sports. So this doesn't mean it can't be a sport.

Well, my brain hurts. Sayonara for now.

Wow Webmaster, you schooled on me. I was just thinkin of that, it's not like I'm actually going to wait for some DCI guy to pay me. I'll never be that good!! Anyways, I guess I was wrong about being payed to be a sport. But, if band can be considered a sport in so many ways, and there are so many other sports that meet the same qualifications as band and are sports but not contact sports, then why, after all these years of DCI, is band not a sport?

Webmaster, I think the academic eligibilty guidelines go by county. I'm not sure the conduct requirment is even county-wide - it might just be my school. They really ought to make that stuff state-wide...

Jen- I think the academic requirements for us are countywide but definitely not statewide. However, I know the other types of requirements aren't- like we don't do physicals, that sort of stuff like you said you guys do....and yeah, that does need to be state mandated....

What I mean Webmaster is that it's not considered a sport like Football or Soccer or Baseball is considered a sport. Band is considered a Fine Art, it's never been considered a sport no matter what definition you throw at it. Unfortunately, in our modern day society definitions are not always followed.

Hannah, we don't have to do physicals, but we do have to sign a form saying we are physically able to participate, blah blah blah. but that's definitly just our school.

Now that I think about it, the academic requirements might be just our school too. I'm really not sure. That should be countywide at least, though.

I think they should just do away with the conduct eligibility requirements. The policy is too broad and ends up getting a lot of people kicked out of extracurriculars that haven't done anything wrong.

When I was in my high school marching band here in NJ, We had to go to the physicals just like the football players, soccer players, and cheerleaders. I don't remeber anything about the eligibility requirements because I never had to worry about it.

Now turn your head a cough. This may feel a little weird...

COUAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!