God, why do I feel like I'm reading a really bad fortune cookie on this thread?? Why does everyone have a list of excuses they throw out as soon as someone says something about their post?? If people were to agree with certain advice, instructors would not have come into it. This brings up another good piece of advice, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. So what have we learned so far? 1.) take initiative. 2.) fortune cookies suck. 3.) take responsibility.

Chsgirl you said that it is the instructor's job to discipline the line. So where are your instructors during all of these problems? I find it hard to believe that Mr. Rice, Mr. Eppler, and Ms. Hoffman let this stuff go on. Your winterline is too good of a program and score too well for this kind of stuff to be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.....your section leader was given that role for a reason. You obviously dont like her/him for whatever reason or another but you have to deal with it.

If the leader isnt cutting it, then do what you can to make the best of the situation. Help out where you can, offer advice, and things along that line. Don't just stand there. You might not realize but the instructors are constantly watching to see who the future leaders will be. Don't assume that because you are line for the job you will automatically get it. Someone who steps up to the plate and helps out this year will be the one to get the job. You need to do everything you can to make sure that person is YOU.

Whenever I offer advice of my own no one seems to care. Actually the problem is only in our pit. Our drumline is fine they listen to whoever is in charge. You guys would understand if you come to one of our practices where the pit is by themselves with our instructors. Last night it took me a couple of minutes to get them to warm up due to my section leader not being there. We warm up on our own.

They told me that I wasn't the section leader and did not have a say in anything so I had to stand up because I was the older one there.

Now we still don't know wether drummermaniac is a section leader or not. If drummermaniac is a section leader then yes the stand must be taken but otherwise there is hardly anything you can do other than either talk to your instructor or section leader.

But there IS something you can do: lead by example. If the other's don't follow and continue to screw off - does that reflect poorly on you or them? (hint: them)

You're correct that you are not in a position to dispense discipline, but you must lead by example precisely because that is the one thing you have complete control over.

good call Garf. Goes back to taking the initiative and taking responsibility.

I do lead by example I understand that part but its not like they are getting the hint. Whenever we are with the drumline they don't goof of but when we are not then they t goof off. i don't know what to do because last time you guys gave me advice i guess i took it wrong because i don't know.

Maybe i should stop posting here because everytime i try to help someone it ends on me being bad.

No, don't stop posting here. They are just giving you advice on your advice.

Sometimes, leading by example doesn't work. It depends on the maturity of the line.

I like what Souldrum said. Show them lot videos, or better yet, next time ya'al go to a show, DCI, or WGi, let them watch a tight line warmup. Point out to them how the ONLY person who talks other than the instructor is the SL. Point how they all move as a unit when marking time and getting set. Point out how they do not relaxe until given the signal and once they do, how they do not goof off, but stand beside their drums and chat quietly. Then show them their show...even the immature one's will get the picture.

Get a section leader on them. Give them laps or push ups. Thats what we do and they usually shut up. If they dont listen, get the director involved. Our director cant stand talking or any kind of nonsence behavior during rehearsal. Thats probably why we are one of the best groups in Ohio.

Here is my two cents. Titles do not make leaders. Leaders make leaders. Just because someone says "ok this guy is the section leader" does not make him a leader. Being able to lead means alot a lot of things. In fact just because someone has chops does not make them a good leader. Keep all this in mind. And I will say the same thing others have already said because I think it has not sunk in yet, You CAN lead from within. I have taught lines were I chose someone to be a section leader at random just to see who will step up and do the job even if they don't get the "title" of a section leader. Then that person is my new section leader. I once went to a Dr.Tim Lautzenheiser(I hope I spelled it right) leadership seminar. One of the best things I have ever heard about being a leader is this: When you go to a public bathroom and go to use a stall and find that someone has decided to leave a "treat" behind, A leader is the person who flushes the toilet, not uses another and leaves the problem for someone else. This is true. Be a leader do what others are not willing and or capable of. One last word of advice, Being right is not always being effective. Be and Efective leader.