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4123 Members
81 Forums
13430 Topics
170250 Posts
Max Online: 722 @ 04/10/08 12:10 PM
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#35743 - 03/09/04 11:13 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: UTM3rdBass]
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Registered: 08/07/03
Loc: †
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We've recently discussed several disciplinary strategies that can help in these situations...
Check the discipline vs hazing thread in general drumline info.
_________________________
Instructor, ECU Marching Percussion (2004) Endorser, Vic Firth sticks and mallets [color:"red"] EIRT [/color][color:"yellow"] Ålpha [/color]
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#35745 - 03/10/04 01:52 AM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: basil]
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Registered: 10/09/03
Loc: NJ
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As a drumline instructor, I know how aggravating it can be to have a line that lacks discipline. I walked into a similar situation this past season, inherited from a former BD who didn't give a crap what the kids did during practice. So it's not my guys' fault that they don't have any discipline--they never really learned any. Anyway, I have a few bits of advice that may help you:
1. Sounds like you need some leadership. If not section leaders, then at least a drum captain, or better yet, co-captains (this way they can rely on each other for backup.)
2. A temporary fix is to keep them busy. When they aren't playing for real, they should be hacking on pads or rims or anything not loud. The busier they are, the less opportunity for messing around they'll have.
3. Make them watch some "lot" videos. Sounds like they need some incentive to rehearse well, so show them how awesome a line can be with good rehearsal etiquette.
4. Be patient. Behavior change takes a reeeeeeeally long time to take effect. I'm still working on my guys, but they're getting there.
Z
_________________________
Zack Appleton
Percussion Caption Supervisor:
-Roselle Park High School
-Edison High School
-Hightstown High School
Member, Vic Firth Education Team
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#35746 - 03/10/04 02:39 AM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: UTM3rdBass]
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Registered: 03/06/04
Loc: Dartmouth, MA(but recently mov...
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Quote:
chsgirl2 said:
I decided that if my section leader wasn't going to do a thing neither will I. So don't do anything they are the ones that are going to look stupid. That is my advice to you. Maybe someone later on will discipline them the way they are to be disciplined.
This is the worst advice I have seen, the worst attitude to have, and I will pray to god that it stays that way. I'm not sure I can handle seeing this type of advice given again, LET ALONE POSSIBLY TAKEN!
DO NOT ignore the problem. DO NOT assume that someone else will do a job so that you don't have to do it. TAKE THE INITIATIVE!! THIS is what makes a good musician stand away from a bad one - taking the initiative.
wow.....
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#35748 - 03/10/04 10:20 AM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: UTM3rdBass]
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Registered: 08/07/03
Loc: †
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Sorry to say, but you got some bad advice.
You can always lead by example...even if you aren't section leader.
_________________________
Instructor, ECU Marching Percussion (2004) Endorser, Vic Firth sticks and mallets [color:"red"] EIRT [/color][color:"yellow"] Ålpha [/color]
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#35750 - 03/10/04 11:32 AM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: UTM3rdBass]
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Registered: 08/07/03
Loc: †
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Who are you talking to? Are you responding to me?
_________________________
Instructor, ECU Marching Percussion (2004) Endorser, Vic Firth sticks and mallets [color:"red"] EIRT [/color][color:"yellow"] Ålpha [/color]
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#35752 - 03/10/04 12:53 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: batman98]
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Registered: 12/02/03
Loc: Michigan
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Quote:
batman98 said:
Quote:
chsgirl2 said:
I decided that if my section leader wasn't going to do a thing neither will I. So don't do anything they are the ones that are going to look stupid. That is my advice to you. Maybe someone later on will discipline them the way they are to be disciplined.
This is the worst advice I have seen, the worst attitude to have, and I will pray to god that it stays that way. I'm not sure I can handle seeing this type of advice given again, LET ALONE POSSIBLY TAKEN!
DO NOT ignore the problem. DO NOT assume that someone else will do a job so that you don't have to do it. TAKE THE INITIATIVE!! THIS is what makes a good musician stand away from a bad one - taking the initiative.
wow.....
Agreed...Chsgirl2, you may want to rethink your thought process in not doing anything because your current section leader isn't either - especially if you are aspiring to being section leader next year as you mentioned in one of your posts. Respect is earned, not given simply because of a title of "section leader", and if you think you will step into that role next year and will earn instant respect merely because of a title, you are wrong. Your actions this year, when things are not going so well will really help determine what the rest of the line will think of you next year and how well they respond.
I guessing you haven't looked at it this way, but you have tremendous opportunity in your present situation. If you can help shape a bunch of undisciplined people, who nobody expected much from (including the line themselves) whom I'm guessing do not perform well as a result of the discipline problems into a much improved line this year - even when it wasn't your official responsibility, they will respond to your leadership,as you will have earned their trust and respect and they will probably help you make the kind of line you really want next year. It will not happen overnight, and you cannot force this to happen too quickly; it will take constant effort from you to gradually reshape the line's thinking and their poor rehearsal habits, and the others in the line will need to buy into your way of thinking or you will not get their support and will probably grow even more frustrated.
Good luck, and I can tell my your desire to make things better, that things will improve with your guidance if you go about it the right way.
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#35758 - 03/10/04 06:29 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: UTM3rdBass]
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Registered: 09/17/02
Loc: Slidell, Louisiana
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No, don't stop posting here. They are just giving you advice on your advice. Sometimes, leading by example doesn't work. It depends on the maturity of the line. I like what Souldrum said. Show them lot videos, or better yet, next time ya'al go to a show, DCI, or WGi, let them watch a tight line warmup. Point out to them how the ONLY person who talks other than the instructor is the SL. Point how they all move as a unit when marking time and getting set. Point out how they do not relaxe until given the signal and once they do, how they do not goof off, but stand beside their drums and chat quietly. Then show them their show...even the immature one's will get the picture.
_________________________
I play drums.
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#35760 - 03/10/04 06:56 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: Praetorian]
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Registered: 02/22/04
Loc: Springfield M.A
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Here is my two cents. Titles do not make leaders. Leaders make leaders. Just because someone says "ok this guy is the section leader" does not make him a leader. Being able to lead means alot a lot of things. In fact just because someone has chops does not make them a good leader. Keep all this in mind. And I will say the same thing others have already said because I think it has not sunk in yet, You CAN lead from within. I have taught lines were I chose someone to be a section leader at random just to see who will step up and do the job even if they don't get the "title" of a section leader. Then that person is my new section leader. I once went to a Dr.Tim Lautzenheiser(I hope I spelled it right) leadership seminar. One of the best things I have ever heard about being a leader is this: When you go to a public bathroom and go to use a stall and find that someone has decided to leave a "treat" behind, A leader is the person who flushes the toilet, not uses another and leaves the problem for someone else. This is true. Be a leader do what others are not willing and or capable of. One last word of advice, Being right is not always being effective. Be and Efective leader.
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility. http://www.vater.com/
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#35765 - 03/10/04 08:17 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: Praetorian]
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Registered: 12/24/03
Loc: California
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Quote:
tigerdrummerchick04 said:
Quote:
Get a section leader on them. Give them laps or push ups. Thats what we do and they usually shut up. If they dont listen, get the director involved. Our director cant stand talking or any kind of nonsence behavior during rehearsal. Thats probably why we are one of the best groups in Ohio.
I wish that worked for us. For the people in the line im in that are part of this site, sorry but i dont think we are disaplined at all. And the bass section leader i dont think does his job and no one seems to listen to our BD or anyone else except our coach. Which i dont think is that great. oh well.
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#35766 - 03/10/04 09:18 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: LSHSdrummer]
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Registered: 05/29/02
Loc: Augusta, Georgia
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First of all....All of you stop picking on chs. She was just trying to help too, and I bet she feels like you all are jumping down her throat. Whether it is right or wrong to you, it isn't to her. Kapeesh?
To the problem at hand. There is something that should be understood here. There are no instructors here, and it seems that the line is the bad section in the line. Been established already. The only thing I think you can do right now drummermanic, is to believe in yourself and keep playing dude. You are a freshman, and the people probably goofing off in front of you are upperclassmen and such, so as the way of high school goes, there is no way that they're gonna listen to ya. If the drum captain and the band director are also having trouble with the line, then that probably means the bad apples have a lack of respect for them as well, more so the drum captain than the band director(of course cause the band director can own them for free).
So drummermanic, just believe in yourself and keep practicing. It isn't going to be like this all the time, and with your dedication, you will probably sow the seed for the up and coming players in the future.
_________________________
Marques: Back in da game...
Currently working on: Moving to Ohio in the spring of this year
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#35767 - 03/10/04 11:51 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: CoosCoos]
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Registered: 02/22/04
Loc: Springfield M.A
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I would say it seems like you are in a good position. If the goof offs are upper classmen then that means you will get rid of those undesired individuals. Also you are in a position to change things over the next three years. SO by the time you graduate you can leave a solid program behind. Obviously there were some poor leaders and bad exapmles set prior to you getting involved with the program. You are in a rebuilding time. This happens in bands and in drum corps. Even the top 12 corps have gone through periods of rebuilding. 1991 Cadets of Bergen County. 6th Place corp that year. In 90 they were a champion. I took 3 years for them to rebuild. In 93 they won another title against Star of Indiana. So just stick with it and watch what happens. You are getting in on the ground floor of this rebuild. So be a designer my friend. Start writting down your ideas. For next season have a booklet ready for you BD to look at. Have the booklet spell out what is expected of members of the line. Talk about rehearsal etiquette, amount of rehearsal time, outside practice time, what style you will play with, exercises ect... Inform them for next year/season. Set the tone very very early next season. This will turn out great if you can stick it out through the hard times and put in the effort to help impliment the necassary changes.
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility. http://www.vater.com/
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#35768 - 03/11/04 04:30 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: UTM3rdBass]
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Registered: 04/16/03
Loc: WV
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chs..think for a minute. Breathe, hunny. I don't so much agree with the advice that you were given about doing nothing, but I could understand how you could frustrated because nothing seems to improve, no matter how hard you try. I believe that section leaders in HS programs are thought to have way too much power. Yes, they're there to "lead", but you can't honestly expect them to be mature all of the time. Y'all need to realize that everyone in the line is still responsible for their own actions. Section leader's just a title, like Ironman said. A true leader does not let the actions of others prevent them from achieving their goals, nor do they abuse their power. Keep that in mind.
But, as for the original post, mad props to you for wanting to improve, even if you're one of the youngins! In the lines that I've taught, they have been a little out of control, but I understand that that is part of the territory. If you can only figure out some way to make being disciplined fun...my kids always seemed to straighten out whenever they knew that they were being watched, or when I would remind them of the reputation that their group had to uphold.
_________________________
~patty
Crossmen '02-'03
& a whole bunch of WGI
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#35770 - 03/11/04 06:02 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: batman98]
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Registered: 02/22/04
Loc: Springfield M.A
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One last word of advice. To touch on what my dear friend Diva said. There is only one person whose actions you can control. That person is you. No matter the title given to anyone they only ulitimately control their own behavior. So just keep that in mind.
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility. http://www.vater.com/
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#35772 - 03/11/04 09:08 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: Praetorian]
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Registered: 02/04/04
Loc: Walker, Louisiana
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thx yall for the help yall are given me. i realyy appreciate it!  also the percussion section isnt the worst one either, the trombones are complety more bad and absolutly no respect for our bd......most of the people in my line are freshman, though i am glad all of them exepct like 1 of them(besides me) are quitting next year!  of course we had like 11 people on the line(inludin pit and me) and 5 are feshman, 2 is sophmore 4 are juniors and no seniors........also my drum captain and me are good buds, and i have a very high respect for him cause he has taught me a WHOLE LOT about drumming. almost everything. and i am still learning more and more! and i am also goin to try out for the cavies for the 05 season and my drum captain is in full support of me and is even helpin me with anything that i need help on....like i said before thx yall very much for all this advice...
_________________________
Walker High School
{03-07 Tenors}{06-07 Drum Captain}
Louisiana Tech University
{07- Snare}
*SDF* {Crypt}-/SHOT/
http://www.myspace.com/cavaliers007
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#35780 - 03/14/04 05:28 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: Praetorian]
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blank
Registered: 03/14/04
Loc: TN-yo!...
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I'm reading this book(it's REALLY old...) and it says to use sort of a reverse aproach to getting people to do what you want... you have to figure out (or ask them-duh...) what they want out of an experience such as... oh, I don't know... let's say,... winter drumline!! and turn this into a way of keeping your line in order... try this... I strongly believe that this will work...
_________________________
We know who you are...
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#35781 - 03/15/04 10:54 PM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: sugarhigh]
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Registered: 02/22/04
Loc: Springfield M.A
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Well said snarechick. I could not have said it better myself. As a last resort I would talk to your schools adiminstration. I would go through the chain of command. Meaning go to the percussion staff, ban director, department head, then the principal. But sfter you have spoken to each of these people you must allow time for them to try to change and solve the problem.
_________________________
Semper Gumby: Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility. http://www.vater.com/
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#35783 - 03/18/04 03:02 AM
Re: a very undisciplined drumline
[Re: randyg]
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This philosophy takes time to set in the minds, but it will happen.
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