I searched the forums and I didn't see this anywhere. I may be wrong, but here we go. My director told me that there is a way to change the sounds in finale so that they actually sound like snares, basses, etc. He was going to show me how to do it, but I didn't have any time. Does anybody know how to do this?

It's called Virtual Drumline.

I know about Virtual Drumline. That's not what I'm talking about. My director said the sounds are actually in finale. His friend knew how to find them and set them as the defaults. This is what I'm talking about.

Oh, you're talking about setting up drum-maps by selecting sounds from the General MIDI percussion patch.

There's actually a lot you can do with the general midi sounds to make them more realistic, but it takes a little cleverness.

First, I'd suggest making a snare map.

Set up a new "default" document, just for testing purposes. Then, select the staff tool (looks like a G clef) and then double-click on the only staff you have on screen. This should bring up a dialog box, and at the bottom, you should see a little text box where you can select the notation style. Select Percussion, and then click on the button that says "Select". This will bring another dialog up, with a few pre-programmed percussion maps. highlight the one that says "general MIDI" (by clicking on it) and then click "edit" on the right. You will see all the possible notes, in a table, with the corresponding sounds that they will trigger.

Start looking for snare sounds that you like. I suggest the electric snare, (E2) but you can pick one that you like better. Some people use the woodblock or whatever.

In order to play the "electric snare" sound, you must place a note on the staff on the E2 pitch. You must also bring up the "instrument list" window, (by using the Window menu) and set the staff's instrument to "percussion", which will set the midi channel to 10. Channel 10 is the percussion channel.

Then, when you place a note on E2, (7 lines below the staff) you will hear a sound that is known in the general midi percussion map as electric snare. When you find a snare sound you like, take note of the MIDI Pitch and the number that corresponds to it.

Obviously it's not very convenient to write all your snare notes that far below the staff, and in fact, you want to be able to write the notes on A4, and have Finale recognize that you really mean to trigger the electric snare sound (E2).

So, you're going to create your own snare map. Select the staff tool again, and double click on the only staff on the screen. Then, select Percussion from the "Notation Style" drop-down menu, and then click the "Select" button. When you get to the list of available percussion maps, click the button marked "Create."

You're now in the "Percussion Map Designer" dialog, which will allow you to mix and match the percussion sounds as you see fit. First, give your new percussion map a name, like "My Snare" or something. Then, highlight the desired appearance note from the table on the left by clicking on it. This will be the A on the staff, or A4. next, give this note a name, like "regular hit" or something. Now, put the desired triggered note number in the text box called "playback note." If you don't remember what it was, you can just scroll up until you find the desired (triggered) pitch in the table and look up it's number. For example, E2 triggers the electric snare sound, and it's corresponding number is 40, so I would type "40" in the "playback note" text box.

You must also set the display note so that the notehead looks right. That is the little sqare window on the right, with a section of staff in it. click and drag the noteheads so that they show up on the A space instead of middle C like they start off on.

You're almost done now; but you still have to check the box that says "Highlighted Note" to make sure that Finale will actually use this note when interpereting your music.

Now click "done", "select", and "ok", and you should be back on the regular screen. Try writing some notes on the A line, and on playback, you should get the electric snare sound (or whatever else you chose to define).

If you want to add more sounds to the snare map, like rim clicks, stick clicks, or rim shots, go ahead! If you understand the process, you should have no trouble picking out sounds that you think are appropriate.

Whenever you get around to making the rest of the instruments, the process is similar, but probably not as difficult.

That's enough for now, but feel free to ask again if you have questions about the other staffs, (especially cymbals) or saving your work as a template, or re-using your percussion maps in other pieces you've already written.

Hope this helps,
~Terry

Wow terry, I've been waiting along time to figure this out. Very well done, man. This is getting pinned. VERY useful. Thanks a lot!

Anyone have any example MP3's of this? Thanks for the info!

So if i had soundfonts set up, how would i get that A4 to sound like the soundfount for a snare?

The post Terry made refers to the general midi percussion sounds, not soundfonts.

Soundfonts are a whole different topic.

ok guys, i have finale 2001d, and i have tried what Terry posted many of many times and it has failed for me. so i was wondering, if it is a different set up in 2001 or if it's just me being too stupid and i need some one to guide me through it.

bottom line - I need help to get the snare midi playback to be the electric snare or acoustic snare.

Then you did it wrong or missed a step because that is the way for it to work properly. I've used that same process from Finale 97 all the way through Finale 2003 and it has worked every time.

finally!, ok man i hate maping out the percussion stuff on finale. so finally they decided to add marching sounds. check it out. even though the tenors sound like 10 yr old Premier HTS, i can still deal with it. finale 2005

Hey it's better than having basses that sound like tenors and tenors that sound like basses. Ehh I still would rather use my soundfont that I made.

http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/features/new/row-loff.asp


Very nice.
Though, kinda sucks that the boys at tapspace have some competition now... I wonder how that's going to play out for them...

Ehh Row-loff isnt the only one providing some competition there's another company thats put out a soundfont using Yammies.
|Edit|I believe http://www.digitaldrumtech.com/ is the site |Edit|

i dont have a staff tool or w/e what do i do?

The staff tool is the button near the top of the screen that has a picture of a G-Clef on it. Look for it one more time, and then if you don't see it, try clicking on the "Window" menu item in the very top menu bar. Then make sure that there's a check-mark next to the option that says "Main Tools Palette."

If'n thur aint no check-mawrk, jess put won thurrr wid yer little mause-ponter thang, an' den ya aint got no 'scuse fer not sayin' da "Staff Tool" atta toppa yor scrane.

Hope dis heps
~Terry

I was wondering if a MIDI keyboard was really necessary for Virtual Drumline to work properly? I know from what I read on Tap Space, it will save hours in time.

But if a MIDI Keyboard is really necessary, my Mom has a keyboard. It's a Roland KR-350 Digital Intelligent Piano. I looked on the back and it has a MIDI in and out hook up. Would it be possible to use it with Virtual Drumline?

As long as the keyboard is MIDI capable, it will work just fine with Virtual Drumline.

Like you have already stated, a MIDI keyboard is not a requirement, but using one saves tons of time.

That's cool. Now, if the rest of my computer checks out, I might look at purchasing Virtual Drumline.

A little late, but here is an example of one man's fight against the droning of Finale's General MIDI percussion sounds.

Just wondering if anyone has finale 2005, and if they know how to change the sound fonts on an existing file to the marching percussion sounds? im at a loss here.

I just purchased Finale 2005 and just recieved from Fed-Ex yesterday. I'm still learning all the new features, as well as learing it all over again because I haven't touched finale since 2002. I gotta get my finale chops back up to speed...lol. If anyone has any questions about Finale 2005, you can IM me and I'll help and answer as best as I can. Granted, I am relearning it all over again...which shouldn't take long at all for that matter.

Also there are others on DLO who have Finale 2005 as well, and are very proficient with the software. So don't be afraid to ask them questions. I'm sure they'll be happy to help out as best they can.

AIM: JawnieBoy

Finale 2005 includes actual drum and mallet soundfonts from Row-Loff. Using the set up menu you can easily create and playback a variety of instruments. The only thing you really need to do is make sure that each voice is set to the appropriate channel so that the correct voice can be heard.

don't download the update finale 2005a. there's bugs that will affect your articulations...especially with triplet rolls and 16 note base rolls. the peeps at finale are on scramble to get it solve as i post this...but not sure when it'll be fixed.

dangit i have finale 2005 but when i open it up it doesn't have all the drumline battery drums, tenor snare bass cymbols. how do you use finale?!

I just got Finale 2005
how do you get the 32nd notes to look like 16th notes with an extra slash. Those 32nds take up a lot of room.

You need to use the Articulation Tool to notate the diddles, and you need to use Smart Playback to tell Finale to actually create those thiry-second notes where you want them.

You need to learn how to use the Finale User's Manual. It's good. It helps you use Finale.

You need to learn how to use the search feature on this site. Try this experiment:

Hold down "shift" while clicking on this link Click on the "search" link at the top of the page. scroll down slightly until you see the field entitled "Keyword search." Click your mouse in the text area, and type "+diddles +Finale". The '+' signs make the search work better. You will probably find a lot of posts by a lot of people having a lot of the same problems as you're having being answered by a lot of people that know a lot more than you do.

Anyway, happy notating!

Finale 2005 automatically gives correct playback of the diddle slash.

No TG Tools -> Smart Playback in 2005!

This took me forever to figure out a couple of years ago. You have to do your percussion mapping before you enter the music. If you already have your music in and your setting up your sound map after the fact, it generally doesn't change the sound. So, try setting up a new file, then set up your purcussion maps, and then copy/paste your music from the old file to the new one.

Hope this works for you! Good luck.

Great post Terry!

I just got my Finale 2005 a couple of days ago and I absolutely love the marching percussion sounds. Unfortunately, it doesn't transform the sound of my older files to the newer sound fonts. In Finale 2001-3 you could just copy and paste to a new drum file to update the sound mapping. But so far I've had to reenter anything I wanted to use the new sound fonts on. If you know a better way, please help.

Anyway, the easiest and best way to start to get proper drum mapping and sound is to use the setup wizard and select the marching percussion menu and items. This already has preset drum mapping. If you need to figure out what line/spaces or shapes you need for proper playback, then go to Staff Attribute (treble clef) and double click on the staff box in the left upper corner(for ex. snare drum) to bring up the attributes. Go to the percussion mapping section by clicking select next to Notation Style. Click on edit for that map and you can sroll up and down the left side to determine what lines/spaces create which which notes/effect. Hope that makes sense.

Good luck and I absolutely recommend Finale 2005.

I just got Finale 2005 but I'm still using Virtual Drumline. It may be more of a pain to setup but the sound difference is night and day. I would highly recommend using a midi controller/keyboard for input. Makes things MUCH faster (I can't imagine doing it the old way).

how so? I've just learned speedy entry in Finale, and it's quite a breeze to write music now.

my play back works good except some flams (not all) sound like an 1/8 note especially at the beginning of a measure.
I have adjusted the EDU setting on playback but it still sounds bad in those spots.

For flams, don't use the flam articulation. Add a 16th note grace note in front of the main note. I have my grace note length to 20 EDU's, but it's whatever you think sounds good.

Has anyone found books or tutorials that discuss percussion notation in Finale?

I have done some research on the Internet. Unfortuantely, I have found very little. I have noticed a variety of techniques used by seasoned Finale users.

Middle Aged Man mentioned a book a long time ago, something like "The Art of Finale Notation?"
Although I don't think that was specifically tailored to percussion notation, you could probably cleverly use the techniques presented therein..

It's called Finale Power and it can be found here:

http://www.finalepower.com/

It details a lot of stuff that is not readily apparent in the Finale manual.

If I used the same steps as snare, could I map out unison bass parts(so that unison parts show up on the B line)? Is there much difficulty or a trick to do this?

Bridgeman83,
I didn't notice what version of finale you are using but if it's 2005 or newer the row-loff percussion (i.e. the marching percussion) has that as part of the bass drum map. If you're using 2004 or earlier then you would use the same steps as the snare..I believe, but I've never done it.
Hope this helps.

yes, I'm using 2005. Ok, thanks

As I am not fully aware of Notepad's limitations, and there are probably many being that it is a free download, Im not sure if you can use 3rd party soundfonts with it (you need a marching percussion soundfont, not a plug-in).

As you are probably already aware, Tapspace offers VDL2 (virtual drumline). This is a unique soundfont pertaining to high end sampled sound (soundfonts) of marching and concert percussion. While I find this somewhat limited and a little lacking, due to SCV's line was the source-their tuning is horrible and the deep cut Pearl tenors arent my favourite-their basses are a bit funky as well, it is very high end, more than anything out on the market. The recording environment isnt my favourite either-indoors.(?)

Finale 2005/2006 comes bundled with RowLoff's marching percussion soundfonts. While these give a good representation of the unique sounds and tuning schematics of battery drums, they are not very good. I believe it represents only one snare, one tenor and 5 basses (obviously the sound of 5 or 10 snares is much different from a solo snare-even when tight). The tenors sound very low and wet-almost like trashcans or busted timbales...the basses sound like they are from 1980.

A cheap alternative (its free!) can be found along with demos at:

http://gtwy.net/ensermac/Soundfont/

this is of a Yamaha line recorded outdoors with multiple players (the tuning sounds like cavies)...the basses are awesome, exactly how i would tune them. snares and tenors are good, although, the tenors could use more tone and less "white noise". There is even a tutorial how to easily install this into Finale and notation works the same way as does the RowLoff fonts (using the "+" and "-" keys to notate rim shots, buzzes, etc.)

with full ensemble, it sounds live! give it a shot (pun intended) and tell me what you think....

I like the Yamaha soundfonts..they're good for what they are. Here's a post where they were already discussed... http://www.drumlines.org/threads/showflat.php/Number/146824

Hey, Bill, long time no see. I think I've probably flooded your inbox by now.

I'd be happy to give one or two of 'em a shot in my free time. Just send me a PM or email with which ones (and since I'm mostly ignorant about those songs, a place in the show to find them) you'd like and I can give it a shot.

John

to nex and brass instructor...let me know what you need...i think the real top of my wish list is the 1985 Madison one (four score & ballet in brass)...this is an absolute killer combo! I can write the percussion parts for this and make an mp3 with finale, variety of soundfonts for brass and perc, mix it in adobe audition and create a great sounding demo for both of our portfolios. if you need a recording of 85 scouts, i can email you a mp3 clip. the arrangement should be trumpets, mids, baris and tuba...based on what i hear, it sounds like a lot of "big band" type orchestration.

1989 Star of Indiana's opener "Henry V" Willaim Walton, arranged by Jim Prime, transcribed by J Martin, percussion by me.

I took a bit of inspiration from the DeLucia-Dubinski arrangement, utilizing 3 different snare voicíngs throughout: concert snare, scottish snare and the battery snares.

The percussion to horn balance is obviously a bit out of wack, due to audibility purposes.

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room40/1148788/henryV.mp3

percussion only.

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room40/1148788/henryVPERCUSSION.mp3